Charging vs parasitic draw vs bad AGM battery?

[OCDave]

I have had an intermittent problem finding the battery unable to start my 2008 Tiger 1050.  This happened a couple times last summer.  Now twice in the past 3 weeks.

Trouble shooting: Fully charged battery without running = 12.8 volts.  Running 13.8 v cold but 14.5 hot.  Draw with volt meter between neg terminal and neg wire shows 0.22 at 10A setting. 

I picked up my bike stored which was stored at a Triumph dealer over the winter without issue.  Got in a few days of riding before the weather turned snowy for about a week.  After 1 week without riding, the bike would not start.  I purchased a new battery charger with an AGM setting and charged from less than 8v to greater than 12.   All good but about a week later the batter was dead again.  I just recharged.  It seems to be running fine and continues to check out as above. 

I assumed if the AGM battery accepted a charge it was still good.  Anyone have some insight?

Thanks

[ZuluTiger]

Answer: No. Just because your battery accepts a charge, and even gets to spec voltage, that has no bearing on healthy capacity. I can vouch for the fact that at least three failed batteries all appeared healthy on Optimate/Accumate/Battery Tender and yet all gave starting issues. If your battery has had even one deep discharge, it is compromised, being lead-acid. It will not have the CCA to spin the Tiger, but may otherwise seem healthy. The draw you quote only has meaning if you insert the ammeter and allow the reboot to settle down with everything off. It takes a while. 220mA is high under that condition.

[OCDave]

Originally Posted by ZuluTiger

Answer: No. Just because your battery accepts a charge, and even gets to spec voltage, that has no bearing on healthy capacity. ...

Is there a method to prove the battery good or bad?  Or, do I simply replace it and cross my fingers that my problem is resolved?

Originally Posted by ZuluTiger

...The draw you quote only has meaning if you insert the ammeter and allow the reboot to settle down with everything off. It takes a while. 220mA is high under that condition.

So, with bike off and negative side disconnected and voltmeter between negative terminal and disconnected cable the appropriate reading would be what?  Also, takes awhile like 60 seconds or 10 minutes?

Buying a new battery seem reasonable but, I'd like to avoid repeating draining a second battery to a damaging level.

Thanks much for the guidance. 

[ZuluTiger]

This is like an oil thread for batteries so I'll refer you to the search function for days of comments on this issue. If you can find someone who knows his stuff, you can do a load test on your battery. This involves a low resistance load across the battery (drawing 50+ amps) and monitoring the voltage sag. There is no at-home way to do this unless you have specific knowledge of the topic.

But, one way to test things is to have the problem occur, then jump-start the bike from your car battery. If it spins up and starts, by definition, your battery was bad. If not, you can start worrying about other issues.

Voltmeter across open circuit? No, multimeter set to amps, is what you want, and you need to let it settle for about a minute, making sure the Triumph shut-down noises all cease and the system goes to sleep.

Can we assume you are not still trying to limp along with a 12-series battery? Nothing will fix that. You have to start out with at least a YTZ14S.

If you do have a drain, it seems (from other folks posts) that it can be a burnt stator winding. However, your charge voltage seems fine, which makes this unlikely. As a spark, I can work through all of this by elimination and consideration but it's easy to be led astray if you are not clear on how things work. Using the 10A scale on a cheap multimeter is not optimal, you want the milliamp range to see what is going on below 1A.

I'm venturing into shaky territory here because a lot of store is placed on charge voltage. It's not that simple. A test should ideally involve both charge voltage AND a polarity-correct measurement of current into the battery, at that voltage, to get the full picture. Using a clamp-on ammeter and voltmeter simultaneously, for example.

Cutting through the forest - use any other healthy battery to spin the starter when the problem occurs, and you identify the battery problem. If charge voltage is good, then it means the battery in the bike is not holding capacity. This same battery may work fine in an application that is not as sensitive as the Tiger which abhors even a small voltage sag before the ECU cuts out the start sequence.

I'll let some others chime in now as this topic can wear one out. Typically, a 14-series battery is step one.

[OCDave]

Yes, search function sent me down a cumbersome, often misdirected path.  And yes, if the solution to this problem is more than a battery replacement it is perhaps outside my scope of DIY knowledge.

I will start by replacing the battery.  Thanks for the tip on battery replacement #.

Appreciate the help.

[ZuluTiger]

Hope it works out. I think you'll be ok with a new battery. So, you had a 12? That's a hiding right there. It's one of the more vital bits of info I gleaned when I found this forum and was a game-changer for me. It's counter-intuitive because it's smaller but has the CCA we need. Good luck!

[OCDave]

I bought the bike used last spring.  The previous owner put a Duracell AMG battery in, designation on the front is DURAMG-12.  Searching now for a YTZ14S.  Your earlier post suggests "at least".  Is there a designated battery you'd consider "preferred"?

[ZuluTiger]

As per this forum, and all the experience and recommendations, it's a no-brainer: Yuasa YTZ14S. I wasted money on an 'equivalent' and got burned. I'm a convert now. If you have lots of down-time, get a Battery Tender and use it.

[Paul2bikes]

That DURAMG-12 battery only gives 180CCA, that's no good for a Tiger 1050, The YTZ14S gives 230CCA.

A rough & ready diy load check on your battery, is to check voltage while under starting load, if it drops much below 10v it's fekt. Downside is, if your bike starts on first press of the button.

Here's a rough guide to battery health.
https://www.batterystuff.com/blog/how-to-tell-if-your-battery-is-bad.html

[OCDave]

WOW!

My Yuasa YTZ14S arrived this morning.  I have never before had a battery make such an obvious improvement.  The starter cranks considerably faster and the bike fires-up immediately. 

It seems clear the under spec'ed battery was my issue so, I consider it RESOLVED!  Thank you ZuluTiger and Paul2bikes for your help.