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Offline markbt

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Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« on: 12 July, 2020, 05:03:12 PM »
Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what I'm doing wrong here...

I've adjusted my steering bearing tightness as I have been getting some clunks under heavy braking.  Everything goes together ok, I tighten the lower bearing nut so there's free movement with no play, then I install the tab washer and torque the upper bearing nut to 40nm as per the service manual, at which point the steering tightens up too much. So, I decide my torque wrench is out of calibration and put a little less torque on to that upper nut. Now all is well again, so I reinstall the upper yoke and torque up the top nut. Manual says 90 nm for this, but again this makes the steering tight. Even 50 nm makes it all too tight.

I don't understand this as I thought the lower and upper bearing nuts would be what set the tension, and the top nut shouldn't affect it? The bearings are only six months old, I had them put in by a local shop I'm not best pleased with, and now I'm wondering if they could have installed them wrong somehow.

Can anyone guide me as to what I'm doing wrong here please?

Cheers,
Mark

Offline TimboLeMatelot

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #1 on: 12 July, 2020, 07:44:47 PM »
HI,

For starters .... you can check your torque wrench using a weight.

Force =mass x acceleration

therefore

20nm = kg x acceleration (due to gravity 9.8m/s/s)

therefore

20 divided by 9.8 = kg at 1 metre length

2.04kg at 1 metre

if your torque wrench is 500mm long you will need twice the weight i.e 4.08kg

make sense? The weight applied with the torque wrench at the horizontal, the weight hanging down vertically! If you have access to them , try several different weights to log if the torque wrench is linear in its operation\calibration. Use the rear wheel nut as a test piece or put the torque wrench in a fixed vice on the bench.

steering head adjuster nut is 15nm - Do you have a socket to suit the adjuster nut, they are available on ebay, - gbmotorcyclespares.

Is the adjuster moving when you tighten the locknut? - if it is that's the first problem!  :016:

Tightening the top yoke nut should not affect the adjustment.

There are some proper clankies on here ( I am an electric string man really)  Paul 2 Bikes will chip in I'm sure  :002:.

Bw
« Last Edit: 12 July, 2020, 07:47:05 PM by TimboLeMatelot »

Offline tiggersteve

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #2 on: 12 July, 2020, 07:49:09 PM »
Not completely sure but have they changed the spec from roller to taper, settings need to be different ???
I know setting the head bearings is a bit of an art,
Is the lower nut moving?

Offline Paul2bikes

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #3 on: 12 July, 2020, 07:58:28 PM »
*Originally Posted by tiggersteve [+]
Is the lower nut moving?

Seems likely.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline markbt

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #4 on: 12 July, 2020, 09:14:47 PM »
Hi Gents,  thanks for the comments and help.  I didn't think the lower nut was moving, but I guess that's the only place where it could be going wrong.  Maybe I need to find some way to make it nip up tighter against the washer and the upper nut before proceeding.  I'll give that a go tomorrow and see what happens.

Offline tiggersteve

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #5 on: 12 July, 2020, 09:42:51 PM »
Not entirely sure what access you have but you need a thin open ended spanner to hold the nut under the top yolk in position then tighten the top nut,

Offline Paul2bikes

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #6 on: 13 July, 2020, 09:16:35 AM »
Sounds like an issue with the locking washer.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Paullie

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #7 on: 13 July, 2020, 09:14:11 PM »
I had taper rollers installed last year, but they've been slightly tight ever since. So took back to the garage the weekend - he rechecked, tightened to correct torque, but then they were still tight. So he's now just backed off a shade - there's still no play - but steering so much sweeter now.

Offline markbt

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #8 on: 15 July, 2020, 08:41:30 PM »
Well, after about eight attempts I have them back to normal.  As it turns out Paullie was on the money, I had to have the lower nut much looser than the stock torque for ball bearings - so much so that I couldn't even measure it with a torque wrench in fact.  Thanks again for the advice and suggestions everyone.

Offline Paul2bikes

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Re: Steering Bearings - All goes tight when I tighten top nut
« Reply #9 on: 16 July, 2020, 09:06:12 AM »
*Originally Posted by markbt [+]
Well, after about eight attempts I have them back to normal.  As it turns out Paullie was on the money, I had to have the lower nut much looser than the stock torque for ball bearings - so much so that I couldn't even measure it with a torque wrench in fact.  Thanks again for the advice and suggestions everyone.

That is unusual. I opened mine to grease the bearings, re-assembled & torqued exactly to the book, no problem, steering is fine. Sounds like you have got around whatever is the problem.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci