Tiger Sport 1050 Forum

Please login or register.

News: Why not add an avatar to your profile ?



Author [ES] [MY] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [NO] [GR] [TR] Topic: Sudden starting problem  (Read 864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Timbox

  • Tiger Supporter
  • Tiger God
  • *
  • Posts: 3510
  • Bike/Model: Helga
  • City / Town: Newport
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #10 on: 21 August, 2019, 07:52:47 AM »
*Originally Posted by Freddy [+]
If it is the hot-no-start issue, the conclusion drawn was that the starter motor is too gutless to do the job as compression is at its max when hot.     :028:

Yep, what I was told too by a Dealer
Ex Sport owner now on KTM 1290 SAS

Offline Ukwes

  • Tiger Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
  • Bike/Model: 2016 Tiger Sport
  • City / Town: Hastings
  • Country: U.K.
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #11 on: 21 August, 2019, 08:15:13 AM »
...although I had it twice with a 13-15 model Sport, and both times the engine was hot, starter just went click...but only waited 30 seconds - 1 minute later, another attempt and it fired into life as normal.
Other bikes: 2017 Speed Triple R,  ZXR 400 race bike for track days and Fantic 250 Casa for green lanes

Offline Paullie

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 4753
  • Bike/Model: Tiger Sport (2014)
  • Country: UK/Belgium
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #12 on: 24 August, 2019, 10:32:36 AM »
Unfortunately the starter and the battery are just not specced high enough for the job. Fine when everything is new, but couple of years and a few thousand miles of use and dirt and this is what happens.

Most people here will tell you buy a really heavy-duty battery (Yuasa offer an HD one) and expect to renew it every couple of years - also keep the bike on a trickle-harger as much as possible. I've also modified mine so that that the lights don't come on until the sidestand comes up, which has saved my bacon a couple of (hot start) times.

Online Paul2bikes

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 6701
  • DILLIGAF
  • Bike/Model: 2014 Tiger Sport 1050
  • City / Town: High Peak
  • Country: UK
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #13 on: 24 August, 2019, 11:09:37 AM »
Could it be he just confused the ecu with his lil poke on the starter?

My theory on the hot start issue is component tolerancing on some engines. eg Sumert on top limit guin inta a hole on bottom limit. Could be bollux mind, but what other logical theory, when it only affects a tiny percentage.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Freddy

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1279
  • Country: West Oz
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #14 on: 25 August, 2019, 01:28:36 AM »
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.    :745:


Tho I believe you're right Poorlie, if I interpret your lingo correctly.   :187:   :084:   combined with a gutless starter motor.  Paul82 fitted the high-cost kit supplied by T that came with a new starter motor - no change.   :157:
The best substitute for brains is ........what?

Online Paul2bikes

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 6701
  • DILLIGAF
  • Bike/Model: 2014 Tiger Sport 1050
  • City / Town: High Peak
  • Country: UK
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #15 on: 25 August, 2019, 07:56:41 AM »
*Originally Posted by Freddy [+]
Tho I believe you're right Poorlie, if I interpret your lingo correctly.   :187:   :084:   combined with a gutless starter motor.  Paul82 fitted the high-cost kit supplied by T that came with a new starter motor - no change.   :157:

Aye Freddy, exactly why I'm convinced it's a mechanical tolerancing issue. As ya knows, stuff gets bigger when it gets hot. Otherwise, why only a tiny %age affected. If it was a weak starter or battery it would affect the majority or all. I've not had it in 5 trumpets & 150k+ miles, the past 11 years on 1050 motors. I have met 2 people who've had the issue on rare occasions on new TS's, they've been ok after a few thousand miles but shouldn't have happened at all.

I can't see it ever being bottomed 'cos stripped down & cool, all components will be within Triumphs spec. If Triumph can't sort it, we've no chance. IMO the stronger starter was to get around the problem, not cure it.

Just my opinion, as we're all entitled to.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Yellow Dog

  • Tiger Supporter
  • Tiger God
  • *
  • Posts: 9770
  • City / Town: AUCKLAND
  • Country: New Zealand
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #16 on: 25 August, 2019, 09:07:27 AM »
*Originally Posted by Paul2bikes [+]
Aye Freddy, exactly why I'm convinced it's a mechanical tolerancing issue. As ya knows, stuff gets bigger when it gets hot. Otherwise, why only a tiny %age affected. If it was a weak starter or battery it would affect the majority or all. I've not had it in 5 trumpets & 150k+ miles, the past 11 years on 1050 motors. I have met 2 people who've had the issue on rare occasions on new TS's, they've been ok after a few thousand miles but shouldn't have happened at all.

I can't see it ever being bottomed 'cos stripped down & cool, all components will be within Triumphs spec. If Triumph can't sort it, we've no chance. IMO the stronger starter was to get around the problem, not cure it.

Just my opinion, as we're all entitled to.

Has anyone with Jeff's uprated cables suffered with the 'No start when hot' issue ?

I bought a Kwaka ZX10, back in the late 1990s and on my way home, hit the cutout switch, whilst stopped at a set of lights. That was when I first encountered the 'No start when hot' issue.
2018 TIGER 1050 SPORT (c8

Offline Freddy

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1279
  • Country: West Oz
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #17 on: 25 August, 2019, 10:15:07 AM »
*Originally Posted by Yellow Dog [+]
Has anyone with Jeff's uprated cables suffered with the 'No start when hot' issue ?

I bought a Kwaka ZX10, back in the late 1990s and on my way home, hit the cutout switch, whilst stopped at a set of lights. That was when I first encountered the 'No start when hot' issue.

Yes, in a sense.  Paul82 & I made a thick set and replaced the starter relay to no avail.  We even tried jump starting from a fully charged car battery with heavy duty jumper leads connected directly to the starter motor cable lug itself and earth to no avail.  But leave the bike to cool for a short while and away it goes. 
« Last Edit: 25 August, 2019, 11:12:39 AM by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is ........what?

Offline Paullie

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 4753
  • Bike/Model: Tiger Sport (2014)
  • Country: UK/Belgium
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #18 on: 25 August, 2019, 10:25:51 AM »
*Originally Posted by Freddy [+]
Yes, in a sense.  Paul82 & I made a think set and replaced the starter relay to no avail.  We even tried jump starting from a fully charged car battery with heavy duty jumper leads connected directly to the starter motor cable lug itself and earth to no avail.  But leave the bike to cool for a short while and away it goes.
This is the kind of info I've wanted to see for some time, as no-one had said they'd tried that (or made it clear that they'd tried that) and I've not had to try it myself. From what you're saying then Freddy, it follows that the starter motor itself is just not heavy-duty enough for the motor.

I guess you connected the earth terminal to the engine itself and not the frame. As even using an engine mouting bolt begs the question of the efficiency of a high-current path from steel to aluminium, and even the efficiency of the connection between the starter motor body and the engine crankcases. I don't think anyone really knows how good such connections are under high-current conditions.

But my money's still on starter-motor inadequacy, even if the latest Trumpets seem to have more highly rated batteries.
« Last Edit: 25 August, 2019, 10:28:05 AM by Paullie »

Offline Freddy

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1279
  • Country: West Oz
Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #19 on: 25 August, 2019, 11:09:16 AM »
Yes to the earth query but do mean to say you haven't read this thread yet and all the other similar threads we've chimed in on?    :087:   :019:   :005:   :192:

https://www.tiger1050.com/index.php/topic,34436.msg378362.html#msg378362
« Last Edit: 25 August, 2019, 11:11:52 AM by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is ........what?