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Offline nuntius

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Sudden starting problem
« on: 20 August, 2019, 03:17:58 PM »
I just got in from a ride with my son.  I was going through some of the basics with him because he is interested in taking his test.  When the bike was on It's side stand in neutral I asked him to start the engine.  Having never started a motorcycle before he was following my instructions, "turn on the ignition, check that you are in neutral, pull the clutch in and press the starter button".  He did press the starter but only for a second not realising he was meant to hold it in until the bike started.  My instructions could have been clearer.  When he tried again he did hold the starter in but after a quick initial try to start it completely died.  I tried myself and didn't do any better.   Have any of you ever experienced this?  The bike prior to this has always started perfectly every time and the battery has a good charge.  Any help would be appreciated.

Online af1-windy

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #1 on: 20 August, 2019, 04:04:36 PM »
*Originally Posted by nuntius [+]
I just got in from a ride with my son.  I was going through some of the basics with him because he is interested in taking his test.  When the bike was on It's side stand in neutral I asked him to start the engine.  Having never started a motorcycle before he was following my instructions, "turn on the ignition, check that you are in neutral, pull the clutch in and press the starter button".  He did press the starter but only for a second not realising he was meant to hold it in until the bike started.  My instructions could have been clearer.  When he tried again he did hold the starter in but after a quick initial try to start it completely died.  I tried myself and didn't do any better.   Have any of you ever experienced this?  The bike prior to this has always started perfectly every time and the battery has a good charge.  Any help would be appreciated.

I had an issue with starting, it turned out to be no more than the heated grip housing on the clutch side moving round ever so slightly, clockwise, and fouling the clutch lever, just enough to stop it from activating the (whatever it is) that allows the bike to start.  :084:

Other than that, maybe the last time you started the bike was the last straw for the battery and now it isn't strong enough to turn the engine over.. there has to be a last time it works I guess.. :084:

Others, with more sense & knowledge, will no doubt be along shortly, with some real help..  :164: :001:


Offline ZuluTiger

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #2 on: 20 August, 2019, 06:29:11 PM »
Did you raise the stand...?

Offline nuntius

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #3 on: 20 August, 2019, 07:10:38 PM »
Tried with it both up and down, no joy.  I have just been out to the garage and it started first time, strange!

Online Sidewinder

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #4 on: 20 August, 2019, 07:59:51 PM »
Bike hot or cold?
After he momentarily pressed the starter did the bike go back thru its setup sequence (clicks n whirs) before you tried again or not?
On the failed attempt, did the engine turn over without firing then stop or did it fire then stop?
On subsequent attempts were you getting; nothing at all, a click or attempting to turn over but no fire?

Check all connections in starter circuit, bettery, starter and earth terminal on gearbox are clean and tight.

Could be simply a dirty starter switch contact or the clutch switch interlock* (*but only if you get nothing at all).

Offline nuntius

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #5 on: 20 August, 2019, 09:17:08 PM »
The engine was hot (normal operating temp. on guage).  On the first try he released the starter button too soon the engine barely turned over then died.  With each subsequent try it seemed to try to turn over, there was a single half second try and then it died instantly without actually firing up.     
As I have said, I went out a couple of hours later and it started fine, thanks for all of your help.  :002:

Offline Yellow Dog

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #6 on: 20 August, 2019, 09:21:04 PM »
Most likely going to be an issue with the clutch switch or side stand switch. If all is as it should be, a small amount of lubricant might be all you need.

Do you have a 13-15 Sport or is it a >16?
2018 TIGER 1050 SPORT - 40,000Km with zero tyre wear & zero engine or chain wear (c8

Offline ZuluTiger

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #7 on: 20 August, 2019, 09:46:35 PM »
Sounds like you may have a marginal battery. The initial attempts crunched it and it recovered later for a clean start. Put it on a charger just to be sure. If your stand and clutch switches are okay, it almost always comes back to the battery. 

Online Sidewinder

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #8 on: 20 August, 2019, 10:24:54 PM »
Unlikely to be clutch or stand interlocks as the engine is turning over.  Numerous folks have had 'hot start' issues where the bike acts like the battery is drained but when left to cool bike starts fine.  No one has so far pinned down a cause for certain, but elevated temps increasing resistance in the starting circuit (including the motor itself) is possible.

What battery do you have, is it kept charged by regular use or a tender?

Optimising your starting circuit helps with this by making sure all terminals in starter circuit are in good order, having a 14 series battery (eg Yuasa ytz14s) and upgrading to heavier gauge starting circuit cables.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Sudden starting problem
« Reply #9 on: 21 August, 2019, 01:38:58 AM »
*Originally Posted by Sidewinder [+]
Unlikely to be clutch or stand interlocks as the engine is turning over.  Numerous folks have had 'hot start' issues where the bike acts like the battery is drained but when left to cool bike starts fine.  No one has so far pinned down a cause for certain, but elevated temps increasing resistance in the starting circuit (including the motor itself) is possible.

What battery do you have, is it kept charged by regular use or a tender?

Optimising your starting circuit helps with this by making sure all terminals in starter circuit are in good order, having a 14 series battery (eg Yuasa ytz14s) and upgrading to heavier gauge starting circuit cables.

If it is the hot-no-start issue, the conclusion drawn was that the starter motor is too gutless to do the job as compression is at its max when hot.     :028:
The best substitute for brains is ........what?