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Offline Timbox

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #20 on: 07 March, 2019, 02:50:19 PM »
*Originally Posted by Timbox [+]
And funnily enough also just tested mine. My battery is actually a bit low at moment, just 12.76v, ignition on still only drops to 12.4v. Im charging my spare battery up so will test again when that one goes on.

This is me old OE Yuasa, 3 years old.  Gave it a little boost last night:




 "That'll do Pig"  :001:
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Offline ZuluTiger

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #21 on: 08 March, 2019, 10:02:16 PM »
Since I was apparently unclear: No matter how your bike is wired, unless you effed up, there is never going to be a time when your headlights are on AND you are cranking the starter which would then add 45A plus 5A (one headlight) or 10A (two headlights). My measurements (he who measures knows, as they say in the classics) indicates a Tiger 1050 starting current of around 45A including all peripherals loaded at the time. Hopefully we're clear on that. My start cycle, using my iPhone timer, was under 1 second, so quite quick. My Fluke 87V allowed me to capture 'Peak Hold' (quite different from the usual 1 sec reading we might all measure) and which is much higher than the current a cheapie meter might record in a 1s sample. Response time is critical here and I caught that in the 1mS range.

For an 11AH battery, handling the 10A lighting load for even a few minutes, the battery is unlikely to be stressed. HOWEVER, having to carry 10A while ALSO cranking the starter, drives the situation into the upper part of the duty cycle. Therefore, if Triumph (and others) want to ensure a clean crank, they are smart to drop out 25% of the load for a 250-500mS cranking time and give a quick boost to the starter.

If your bike does not start because you turned it on and the lights killed your battery in the 60s before you cranked it up, you need a new battery. Fiddling with interlocks, trying to do R&D on a major manufacturer, will not cut it. Now, if you live in the Antarctic, started the bike a month ago, and are worried about a walrus attack, sure, make the changes that increase your chances. But, realistically, a YTZ14S is probably all you need, based on ratings and measurements. As most of us know.     

Offline Timbox

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #22 on: 09 March, 2019, 08:27:11 AM »
Just dont forget plain ol Volts. These modern ECU's can be very voltage sensitive.
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Offline Paul2bikes

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #23 on: 09 March, 2019, 10:53:57 AM »
*Originally Posted by ZuluTiger [+]
My measurements (he who measures knows, as they say in the classics) indicates a Tiger 1050 starting current of around 45A including all peripherals loaded at the time.

You measured the starter at 45A, is that the peak draw or the cranking draw? I ask because I've seen so many different figures, eg 85 &100 on Sprints. Then Aprilia showing 60A peak with 33A cranking the two figures sounds more logical ..to me.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline ZuluTiger

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #24 on: 10 March, 2019, 01:44:14 PM »
The 45A is the highest value reached during the cranking cycle, sampled every few milliseconds while the meter was connected, using the Fluke 'Peak" feature. I'll guess that it drops off once the entire train starts spinning but that is impossible to measure without disabling the ignition (pulling plug leads, etc.) and letting everything simply turn over. I have no reason to do that right now. My experiment ended once the engine caught and the bike started. That happened within 1 second, probably closer to 500mS. I hope I'm answering the question.

It'd be great to have someone else perform this test and compare readings. I am as fallible as the next person and at the mercy of my meters.

As to voltage sensitivity, that's exactly the problem. It appears that the Triumph ECU is quite touchy. My old battery was providing the starting current but the ECU was shutting down due to the voltage sag that accompanied the supply of current. In essence, this is the primary problem for the 1050. The fix is that we need a super-duper battery that keeps the ECU happy during a start. Even a slight drop-off in battery performance is marginal for the ECU voltage, even though the battery is not really 'faulty' at that point. IMHO. 

Offline Paul2bikes

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #25 on: 10 March, 2019, 02:33:41 PM »
Don't see it posted up much on any forums so guessing not many have access to the necessary equipment.
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline ZuluTiger

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #26 on: 10 March, 2019, 05:27:03 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paul2bikes [+]
Don't see it posted up much on any forums so guessing not many have access to the necessary equipment.

Yep, good point. I've always had a DC amp-meter of some sort due to professional needs but the one I normally buy (Extech 200A) is around $270. Cheaper versions by Fluke, etc. can be very iffy at lower current levels. Having moved into data work and handing back all my test equipment, I had to compromise on a FW Bell clamp-probe that feeds voltage to a meter. Only $35 from my mate, so not too nasty.

Here's the unit I usually use for a comprehensive power test with various systems. You'll notice why I am not doing that right now... :

https://www.ebay.com/i/202609945758?chn=ps
« Last Edit: 10 March, 2019, 05:32:18 PM by ZuluTiger »

Offline Paullie

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #27 on: 11 March, 2019, 02:14:15 PM »
*Originally Posted by ZuluTiger [+]
As to voltage sensitivity, that's exactly the problem. It appears that the Triumph ECU is quite touchy. My old battery was providing the starting current but the ECU was shutting down due to the voltage sag that accompanied the supply of current. In essence, this is the primary problem for the 1050. The fix is that we need a super-duper battery that keeps the ECU happy during a start. Even a slight drop-off in battery performance is marginal for the ECU voltage, even though the battery is not really 'faulty' at that point. IMHO.
:0461:  Very well said. And can't be said too often ....

Offline Timbox

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #28 on: 04 April, 2019, 06:02:38 PM »
As a bit of a coincidence, just realised the OE battery in my new KaTooM, is, you guessed it a YTZ14S.  If its man enough for a 1300 V Twin...............
Ex Sport owner now on KTM 1290 SAS

Offline TCC

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Re: Battery - Yuasa YTZ14S for Tiger 1050
« Reply #29 on: 04 April, 2019, 11:55:39 PM »
*Originally Posted by ZuluTiger [+]
...the Triumph ECU is quite touchy. My old battery was providing the starting current but the ECU was shutting down due to the voltage sag that accompanied the supply of current. In essence, this is the primary problem for the 1050. The fix is that we need a super-duper battery that keeps the ECU happy during a start. Even a slight drop-off in battery performance is marginal for the ECU voltage, even though the battery is not really 'faulty' at that point. IMHO.

Very well put.  :028:

Been the case all through the 955 era with Sagem MC2000 and 1000 ECUs, was still the case with the vers1 Keihin ECU when the 1050 was launched and seems to continue to be the case with the vers2 Keihin used to this day.