Tiger Sport 1050 Forum

Please login or register.

News: Warm welcome to our new members !


Author [ES] [MY] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [NO] [GR] [TR] Topic: Cycling ABS  (Read 604 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ukwes

  • Tiger Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Bike/Model: 2016 Tiger Sport
  • City / Town: Hastings
  • Country: U.K.
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #10 on: 24 November, 2018, 09:34:14 AM »
Dont want to wander off topic, but reading the heading I thought bicycles now had ABS  :745:
Other bikes: 2017 Speed Triple R and ZXR 400 race bike

Offline Paul2bikes

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 5305
  • DILLIGAF
  • Bike/Model: 2014 Tiger Sport 1050
  • City / Town: High Peak
  • Country: UK
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #11 on: 24 November, 2018, 09:39:19 AM »
Just been looking at this, See link below, says to do it twice?  Two independents both with good rep's say they just bleed them normally 'cos abs contains a thimble of fluid & it'll get mixed in with the rest as it operates. Their words not mine.

Is it necessary to bleed our bike brakes so often? I've run several cars well over 100k miles without brake fluid change with no ill effects.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/bleeding-abs-brake-systems
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions.
Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Timbox

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2440
  • Bike/Model: 2016 TS Matt Black
  • City / Town: Newport
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #12 on: 24 November, 2018, 10:14:51 AM »
Actually, might have changed my mind again. Having looked at ABS modulator circuits it would seem that there is a cicuit in the pump that is bypassed under normal braking conditions, yes, its probably a very small amount but looks like it just sits there unless you bleed with that circuit open which can only be done with the tool
2016 Tiger Sport, Power Commander, DNA, Wilbers Suspension, Healtech Q/S

Offline 07_1050_ABS

  • Tiger Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Bike/Model: '07 Tiger 1050 ABS
  • City / Town: NorCal
  • Country: USA
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #13 on: 24 November, 2018, 04:17:18 PM »
It's actually just a bit more complicated. You have to bleed the brakes WHILE the ABS is cycling. At least that's how I understand it & how I did it. See below for  instructions I found for using Dealer Tool...

Bleeding
1 - The first stage is to bleed the brakes in the normal way until the old fluid (or air) is flushed out. On completion there should be pressure at the lever and brake operation should feel normal.

 2 - Next we need to bleed the ABS portion of the system. That is done by opening and closing the solenoids in the ABS modulator. Connect the DealerTool cable to the diagnostic connector and establish communications with the ECU. From the menu bar select ABS then Connect to ABS Unit. Above: in this screenshot there are no fault codes. Obviously any fault should be investigated and corrected before the stored codes are cleared.

3 - Apply pressure at the brake lever to pressurize the system then click Bleed System and release the bleed nipple. You may need some assistance to do all these things at once but I found there was enough delay after clicking Bleed System to allow me to open the bleed nipple before the solenoids were activated.

4 - When DealerTool displays a Bleed Complete message close the bleed nipple and release the brake lever. Activating the solenoids allows new fluid to circulate through the modulator. This operation should be repeated several times to ensure old fluid is thoroughly flushed. If the brake system has been stripped then repeat this step until no more bubbles emerge.

5 - Since we flushed out the old fluid from the ABS system it is now mixed with the clean fluid introduced during the first stage of the bleed process. To remove all traces of old fluid we need to go back and repeat the original bleed sequence. DealerTool can be disconnected and the brakes re-bled in the normal way.

6 - Repeat the whole procedure for the rear brake. The front and rear systems are independent but the process is the same for each.
Notes Use only DOT4 brake fluid as recommended in the factory manual. Do not use DOT5 brake fluid. The higher number does not signify higher performance. Silicone fluids are not suited to high-performance applications and are generally not recommended for ABS systems. Read more. With some ABS systems no special steps are required for bleeding as long as no air is allowed to enter the ABS modulator. With other systems there is a dead section within the ABS modulator that can only be flushed by opening the solenoids. Im not familiar with the internal ports and valves of the Nissin ABS modulator fitted to Sprints and Tigers with the ABS option. However, the Triumph factory manual describes this procedure for routine bleeding so, to be safe, we have to assume the ABS system cannot be thoroughly bled without this procedure. As long as no air enters the system ABS brakes can be bled in the usual manner with no ill effects in the short term. However, if old fluid remains in the system it will accumulate increasing moisture and deteriorate. In that case using the correct procedure to thoroughly flush out the old fluid will ensure maximum performance from the ABS system.

 :031:

Offline gosling 1

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Bike/Model: '08 Orange Tiger
  • City / Town: Connecticut
  • Country: USA
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #14 on: 24 November, 2018, 06:13:38 PM »
With the DOT numbering the higher number signifies a higher boiling point but as you said, glycol based DOT 3 or 4 should never be mixed with DOT 5 which is silicone based. The brake systems use materials and components that may deteriorate or swell if the wrong type of fluid is used. To make things more confusing there is now DOT 5.1 which has a boiling point equal or greater than DOT 5 but is glycol based and compatible with DOT 3 and 4 but not 5. :087:

As for the ABS system, I was told by a certified Triumph tech that they replace/bleed the ABS bike's brake fluid  the same as non ABS bike. The amount of fluid trapped in the ABS module is tiny and they only bleed the module if the brakes remain spongy after conventional bleeding or if the module has been replaced.
Larger than life and twice as ugly!

Offline 07_1050_ABS

  • Tiger Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Bike/Model: '07 Tiger 1050 ABS
  • City / Town: NorCal
  • Country: USA
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #15 on: 24 November, 2018, 06:40:29 PM »
Obviously opinions vary. Here's Triumph's...

1. Complete the brake bleed procedure as for models
without ABS brakes (see page 14~ 12).
2. Connect the Triumph service diagnostic tool (See
page 14-50).
3. Follow the on screen menu to ABS diagnostics. From
the menu, select 'BLEED SYSTEM' (see page 14-
55).
4. Select 'BLEED SYSTEM?' from the menu (see page
14-56).

Note:
When the ABS modulator 2nd circuit is
activated by the bleed command, the front
brake lever travel will increase as ABS
modulator solenoids are opened and will
then decrease as the solenoids are
automatically closed.
Pressure must be applied to the front brake
lever before operating the bleed sequence
on the diagnostic tool. An assistant will be
required to open the bleed nipple while
pressure is applied to the brake lever.

5. Apply pressure to the front brake lever, activate the
bleed sequence on the diagnostic tool, and with
assistance, release the bleed nipple.
6. Repeat the above procedure as necessary until all air
is expelled from the system.
7. When all air has been expelled from the system,
apply pressure to the brake lever and close the bleed
nipple. Tighten the nipple to 5.5 Nm.
8. Repeat the brake bleed procedure as for models
without ABS brakes (see page 14-12).
« Last Edit: 24 November, 2018, 06:42:25 PM by 07_1050_ABS »

Offline ZuluTiger

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2022
  • Bike/Model: 1050, KTM 1190 Adv.
  • City / Town: Suwanee
  • Country: USA
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #16 on: 24 November, 2018, 10:28:38 PM »
The procedure seems to be all about bleeding an interrupted system that has ingested air. If you are doing a simple flush, with existing fluid, no air, I would think Indy's gravel method would be okay. Even if this needed to be done a few times, it's a cheap and simple process doing a manual bleed of the very small volumes in the system. As I understand, the primary reason for a bleed at all is that brake fluid is highly hygroscopic which means it absorbs moisture. I doubt the tiny bit of fluid in the ABS module is exposed, and the ppm of water must be minute. A regular bleed then disperses this again so I'm still comfortable with essentially ignoring it if there is no air in the system. I'm much more likely to do a regular service bleed if I don't need to perform the digital acrobatics and that has got to be a whole lot better than the alternative..

But, for those with the tenacity, I applaud your commitment!  :410:
When folks ask me how I am, I reply "I'm here". Seems odd until you consider the alternative...

Offline indytiger1050

  • Supreme Tiger
  • ******
  • Posts: 21553
  • Bike/Model: 2007 White Tiger
  • City / Town: Indianapolis
  • Country: USA
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #17 on: 25 November, 2018, 02:17:08 AM »
 :0461:

Don't over complicate this.

How do brakes work, master applies pressure to slave.  What does ABS do, reduces pressure to slave to stop the wheel from locking up.
HOW in the world could it do that. Diverts the pressure, how would one know that.  The wheel doesn't stay locked.

Since the ABS module is closed UNTIL the system is activated. The fluid in the ABS modulator can NOT be contaminated with water because it's not open to the air.
Support the forum.   :031:

Offline Mike_B

  • Tiger Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
  • Bike/Model: Tiger Sport
  • City / Town: Tonbridge
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #18 on: 05 December, 2018, 10:43:24 PM »
Using DealerTool, I did an ABS bleed a couple of days ago, and its made quite a difference to the feel at the lever.   Less spongy and much better bite, even though I bled the brakes normally several times over the last few months trying to sort it.   Must have been a litttle trapped bubble somewhere near the pipes in the ABS unit.

I also gave them a proper beasting with repeated 60-0 full power stops on a quiet road.   Got the front brakes sizzling hot with the rear wheel lifting slightly and ABS just about kicking in - would have cleaned the pads and disc surface up a bit which helps too.

All in all, theyve been significantly better over the last couple of days.

Online seangee

  • Tiger God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1860
  • Bike/Model: 2016 Tiger Sport
  • City / Town: Bracknell
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Cycling ABS
« Reply #19 on: 07 December, 2018, 11:52:41 PM »
Since I have TuneECU I never bothered *not* doing them as the process is so painless.
I can confirm that the difference was pretty dramatic.
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.