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Offline Paullie

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Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« on: 03 June, 2018, 07:58:08 PM »
Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
Starting a new thread on this, as I think it might run on a bit ...  :087:

These notes are for a 2014 Triumph Tiger Sport, which seems to have a penchant for eating batteries, and leaving them flat when needed for starting. Tests were carried out on a 1 week old Exide YTZ14S-BS (230 CCA), and so far working fine.

I have noted what seems to be a heavy current draw when you connect the battery after leaving it disconnected for a while - a distinct spark when connecting the second terminal (not yet been able to test the exact current draw here).

The bike has the official Triumph Datatool alarm, which does have a significant current draw (enought to recommend a trickle charger if the bike is stood for some time), but I don't think sufficient to cause my problem.

Current draw tests

Battery state at start of tests - 13.2 V, showing fully charged. An ammeter connected in series with the battery -ve terminal.

Operate alarm remote key
  • 2.6A current draw for 1 second, as alarm deactivates.

Switch on ignition
  • 10.8A current draw, dropping to 8.5A when fuel pump relay opens (fuel line up to pressure), then stays at 8.5A.
  • Pulling the headlamp relay drops this to 1.6A - meaning the draw from the headlamp circuit is around 7A !  :114:

Switch off ignition
  • 500mA current draw until alarm activates, then 300mA for a full minute, until fuel pump relay deactivates (need to double-check this, as it might the EMS relay as well).

Steady state (ignition switch off)

  • 4.2mA current draw - which I guess is the alarm.

Battery charging
My Optimate battery charger is showing the battery is taking a 590 mA continuous current charge when disconnected from the bike, even though it is shown as fully charged - 13.7V. I'm not too sure if this isn't a bit high for a brand-new battery. Later - now up 14.2V and 150mA.

Note. Cannot test current draw on starting, as I don't have a really heavy-duty ammeter.

I'll do some comparative tests on an old Yuasa YTX14-BS later - but this is and old one I replaced a year ago.

Conclusions so far
I'd like to get to the bottom of this, but I think an immediate result might be to wire in a switch to the headlamp circuit or some kind of time delay, so that this 7A current draw doesn't come in until after the bike has started.

tbc

« Last Edit: 03 June, 2018, 08:49:57 PM by Paullie »

Offline gosling 1

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #1 on: 03 June, 2018, 09:03:44 PM »
Interesting, if the bike was running the battery flat when not being used I would have thought it would be drawing more than 4.2mA with the ignition off.
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Online Yellow Dog

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #2 on: 03 June, 2018, 10:03:57 PM »
Thanks Paullie. I might go and do some comparisons  :169:
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Offline seangee

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #3 on: 03 June, 2018, 10:09:58 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paullie [+]
Conclusions so far
I'd like to get to the bottom of this, but I think an immediate result might be to wire in a switch to the headlamp circuit or some kind of time delay, so that this 7A current draw doesn't come in until after the bike has started.

tbc
Triumph's engineers must have come to the same conclusion because the latest model doesn't turn the headlights on until the engine is running. Neatest solution I've seen is some guys on Sprints used the sidestand switch to kill the headlight feed.

Edit: Found the link
http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/669970-st1050-headlight-switch.html#post7630521
« Last Edit: 03 June, 2018, 10:33:02 PM by seangee »
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Offline Paullie

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #4 on: 03 June, 2018, 11:11:31 PM »
*Originally Posted by seangee [+]
Triumph's engineers must have come to the same conclusion because the latest model doesn't turn the headlights on until the engine is running. Neatest solution I've seen is some guys on Sprints used the sidestand switch to kill the headlight feed.

Edit: Found the link
http://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/669970-st1050-headlight-switch.html#post7630521
Hey thanks SG, that's really useful.  :460: Just the kind of ingenuity that will help me. The sidestand option appeals, but I think another relay might be a better failsafe option.

Offline Paullie

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #5 on: 04 June, 2018, 11:03:09 PM »
Well, due to shortage of time, I carried out the sidestand switch mod, and lo, it works!   :152:

So disconnected the earth wire (Blk)  from the underside of the headlamp relay, and ran a new wire from there down to the sidestand switch connector (red/black). The sidestand switch connects an earth through to the ECU to stop you selecting a gear when engine is running and the sidestand is down (cuts the motor).

With the mod, the sidestand when down breaks the earth connection, so the headlamps stay off. As soon as you raise the sidestand, the earth is connected through to the headlamp relay, and the headlamps come on. A beautifully simple solution, IMO.

Simce there's no real current involved, the switch can also handle the control of the headlamp relay. I was concerned about the failsafe aspect, however since if there ever was a problem with the switch, you would have no ignition either, I think it's fairly safe.

AFAIK, this mod works only for the 13-15 Tiger Sports. I don't think the T1050 has a headlamp relay, and I understand that the problem has been solved with the latest TSs, which don't illuminate the headlamps until after the engine has started. NB. If this is correct, would love to know how they've done it - maybe a software change in the ECU?

Thanks again to SeanGee for finding out about the mod.  :028:
« Last Edit: 04 June, 2018, 11:05:46 PM by Paullie »

Offline Puccio

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #6 on: 04 June, 2018, 11:17:27 PM »
Latest Triumphs have the headlight relay controlled by the ECU, differently than previous models where the relay is live whenever the key is turned on.

Online Yellow Dog

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #7 on: 04 June, 2018, 11:36:47 PM »
*Originally Posted by Paullie [+]
Well, due to shortage of time, I carried out the sidestand switch mod, and lo, it works!   :152:

So disconnected the earth wire (Blk)  from the underside of the headlamp relay, and ran a new wire from there down to the sidestand switch connector (red/black). The sidestand switch connects an earth through to the ECU to stop you selecting a gear when engine is running and the sidestand is down (cuts the motor).

With the mod, the sidestand when down breaks the earth connection, so the headlamps stay off. As soon as you raise the sidestand, the earth is connected through to the headlamp relay, and the headlamps come on. A beautifully simple solution, IMO.

Simce there's no real current involved, the switch can also handle the control of the headlamp relay. I was concerned about the failsafe aspect, however since if there ever was a problem with the switch, you would have no ignition either, I think it's fairly safe.

AFAIK, this mod works only for the 13-15 Tiger Sports. I don't think the T1050 has a headlamp relay, and I understand that the problem has been solved with the latest TSs, which don't illuminate the headlamps until after the engine has started. NB. If this is correct, would love to know how they've done it - maybe a software change in the ECU?

Thanks again to SeanGee for finding out about the mod.  :028:

Nice work Paullie. You need patent that and make Triumph dealers pay you to use the idea  :152:

I have always said the draw of the lights was a negative starting issue, but the standard response was that the lights dim when the starter is pressed.
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Offline seangee

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #8 on: 05 June, 2018, 12:00:21 AM »
*Originally Posted by Yellow Dog [+]
Nice work Paullie. You need patent that and make Triumph dealers pay you to use the idea  :152:

And when they pay up don't forget who gave you the idea - not that it was original mind  :745:

I liked that option because it is just so simple  :031:
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Online Yellow Dog

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Re: Tiger Sport 14 Electrical Behaviour
« Reply #9 on: 05 June, 2018, 12:12:36 AM »
*Originally Posted by seangee [+]
And when they pay up don't forget who gave you the idea - not that it was original mind  :745:

I liked that option because it is just so simple  :031:

I was concerned about the potential for overload, on the thin switch cable.

It doesn't matter whose idea it was  :110: The first one down the patent office is always the winner  :152:
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