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Offline day7a1

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #10 on: 23 January, 2014, 01:11:11 AM »
The adapter can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are others, but this is the one I chose somewhat at random. 

The program is called torque pro, at the play store it is here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque

I don't use apple products. 

I've found some interesting bits so far.  For instance, the ECU goes into closed loop over a much wider range of conditions than I would have expected.  I had to get on it before it opens that loop, normal acceleration doesn't cut it (at the speed of most cars, I had to jump ahead of cars to open the loop).  Also, I thought it would be a heated O2 sensor, but under conditions where the SAI kicks in, it gives a low temp notice and goes into open loop too, that is, under moderate to hard engine braking. 


This is totally different than most of what I read believes it works. 

Offline TailHappy

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #11 on: 23 January, 2014, 06:01:38 AM »
Your feedback is already sounding interesting.  :084:

Looking forward to what you find out next!  :169:


Offline Dave73

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #12 on: 27 January, 2014, 04:29:41 PM »
The vehicle has to be in open loop with the sai on.  The sai dumps unmetered air in the exhaust which will impact the O2 reading.

How are you accounting for humidity, temperature, and barometric pressure in your mileage calculations?

Are you doing a test of each  configuration under various short and long term fuel trims? Are these measured separately or averaged?

Are you running tuneecu to monitor which cells are being used during the tests?
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Offline day7a1

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #13 on: 27 January, 2014, 06:11:06 PM »
Yep, it didn't take long to figure that out about the SAI, but for awhile I thought the Low Temp code the O2 sensor was giving me was due to low coolant temp, not low O2 sensor temp.  It is interesting, but not useful, to note that it turns off due to the temperature and not due to a decel/accel code or a specific SAI code.

Regarding mileage, the long term mileage will have some error due to the variables you mentioned, but I believe it will be minimal due to the fact that I'm using the same route at the same time of day.  The changes in those variables are not huge.  I won't be using statistical analysis, so I'm looking for fairly large differences in long term gas mileage...I really don't expect any though due to the closed loop being in operation during the operation in focus. 

The short term mileage is at different speeds on the same day on the same run using a speed vs. instant mileage scatter plot, so there will not be significant changes due to those variables. 

The fuel trims are read off of the ECU.  The fuel trims are indicative of the accuracy of the VE maps. If the map is perfect, then no trims will be entered.  Since there is only one O2 sensor, there cannot be a trim for each cylinder.  I'm not sure if I'd call that averaged, though, as there is no math done. 

I'd like  to know which map cells are being affected by the LTFT, but alas, I know of no way to do it with this ecu.  They don't appear to be downloaded with the map.

I've had difficulty getting the power runs done.  It's hard to find safe conditions to do a rolling start to max rpm. I got lucky the first time, but not since.  I think I'll try 60-80 runs in various gears instead. I'm not trying to get absolute numbers, only relative to the other tunes.  That should do the trick and be plenty easy to do in a repeatable manner. 

Offline indytiger1050

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #14 on: 28 January, 2014, 02:50:46 AM »
 The power runs can be a issue, have you considered just doing a pull from 2k to redline in 2nd gear and on each tune.

Higher gears open issues with breaking speed limits pretty quickly.
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Offline day7a1

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #15 on: 28 January, 2014, 05:10:27 AM »
Yes, that was my second choice due to the lower limit, not the upper one.  You can still hit 80 in 2nd, but you can also start in that gear without too much trouble. I can go 55-100 easier than I can go 10-80. No one seems to blink at someone going 90, but god forbid you slowdown to 55. 

I did do some runs for 60-80 today and the data was pretty consistent, but redline is right at 80 in second gear, so it ended up not working perfectly. My camera was facing into the sun so I didn't quite get the RPM's at 60 and 80 mph at 3rd gear. 6th it seems to go from around 3400-4900 RPM and I think 3rd is around 5000-8500.  It would be nice to get the extra 1000 rpm, but I don't think it would invalidate any findings without it.  I would post it, but I'm not yet confident of the data and I'm definitely not sure it would show any differences.  It took 3.0 seconds from 60-80 in 4th, 5th, and 6th.  I just don't think that's precise enough. 

There is really only one spot that I can think of around here where you can go from 10-80 without blowing by intersections at twice the legal limit...maybe I'll just have to do U turns until i get some decently consistent data. 

This would all be a lot easier if I lived out in the desert rather than a big, hilly city. 

The good news is, once I get the techniques down, the other tests will come much more quickly.  The power data is all I need right now. 

Offline indytiger1050

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #16 on: 28 January, 2014, 12:10:53 PM »
This sounds like a perfect excuse to take a small road trip to the country.
Reading between the lines it the speed limit is in the 40's, would guess there might be people to hear you.
Just takes one A hole to call the cops. They are drag racing OMG and most likely doing drugs and drinking.
  (that was what the policeman told me was reported when 30 bikers showed up at my house for the GP)
 

 Looking forward to what you find out.


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Offline firemanjim

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #17 on: 29 January, 2014, 09:54:20 PM »
So are fuel trims stored so they can be read from ecu anytime or are they lost with neach start-up. Just looked at my bike while running here and just see 0's.

Offline trumpet tigger

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #18 on: 29 January, 2014, 11:10:59 PM »
Tech overload - better watch out you don't crash in your quest for data (don't take our eyes off the road too long).

Please be careful - sounds like a hard way to get data you could get on a dyno.

Offline day7a1

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Re: Quantitative Testing of 7 Tiger Tunes Using Bluetooth OBDII Scanner
« Reply #19 on: 30 January, 2014, 03:05:44 AM »
Tigger-Thanks for the concern, but I'm using a datalogger so I don't actually look at any data until I'm home.  The small exception is looking at the o2 sensor status...but that's basically on or off, and that test doesn't need to be repeated.  If you want to send $700 for 7 days of dyno runs, I'll send back receipts...but I don't need that kind of accuracy for what I'm attempting. 

jim-You can't look at the trims in TuneECU, you have to use a different system.  But they are stored, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do their job. 

Indy-The choice spot (which worked successfully today after heeding your advice) is a stoplight at the end of a freeway, which is basically a really, really long on ramp.  The speed limit switches to 65 immediately.  2nd gear seems to top out just under 80, and a brief 15 mph over is nothing around here. There is a slight curve, and little traffic (in front, there's plenty behind).  It is up a hill, but I'm not actually under illusions of accuracy, I'm just going for consistency.  You can't even guarantee accuracy on an actual dyno (don't get me wrong, it's much much closer, but there's a reason races aren't done on dynos). As far as the country goes....it's all mountains until about 3 hours out. Great for driving, not for testing.